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Is the headspace correct? -TL

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Check the pin placement that holds the lifter. Sometimes it will bind the firing pin spring

Question follow-up

Not sure what you mean by pin placement. I have ordered a new hammer spring from Midway. Headspace is ok.

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The pin going through the receiver that holds the lifter. On at least two I have repaired, the pin will go through the coils on the spring and cause it not to fire.

Question follow-up

I believe the lifter is operating fine so I don’t think the pin is binding on the lifter spring. Frank

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Make sure the hammer can and does push the firing pin out. Often the hammer won’t push the firing pin out as much as it should and the hammer nose has to be trimmed so it will push the lifter further forward….and therefor the firing pin as well. Also make sure the lifter doesn’t drop down prematurely. Ken

Question follow-up

What would cause the lifter to drop down prematurely? Also when trimming back the hammer nose what is too much? Is it possible to remove too much metal here?

Having not heard anything more on this I cut some more off of the hammer nose. I have now cut probably half of it away. The top of the hammer no longer touches the back of the receiver and the gun still won’t fire. The firing pin sticks out enough I believe when you take a punch and push on the lifter which pushes on the firing pin. But dropping the hammer won’t push it out as much. The lifter is held up as the hammer drops so I don’t think it is a lifter problem. Do I need to build up the area of the hammer which contacts the lifter, which is under the hammer nose? Ken says you can’t weld on these hammers but what about fasting a piece of feeler gauge with red Loctite?

One observation I made was that when the hammer is dropped and the firing pin protrudes from the breech face I can take a punch and push on the firing pin from the breech face and it pushes the hammer back immediately. So the area of the hammer that contacts the lifter is making contact but for some reason, I don’t know why it does not push the firing pin enough to fire the shell. But like I mentioned if I push on the lifter directly it protrudes more. Your point about the screw is no doubt better than the Loctite. This gun is driving me nuts.

Has anyone ever installed a set screw to make one of these gun fire. I can’t believe that I have to take such drastic measures to get this gun to fire. Bobbing off half the trigger nose and now maybe putting in a set screw.

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You can take off too much material from the hammer…..the hammer will fall and pinch the lifter between the hammer and the frame and the lifter won’t retract when the trigger is released. The lifter can retract too soon when it isn’t held up as far as it could by the trigger then when the hammer hits it the lever is pushed down abit. If the lifter can push the firing pin out more than the hammer does then the hammer isn’t pushing the lifter all the way forward. Like mentioned above you don’t want the hammer to pinch the lifter so go slow here. Taking material off of the nose of the hammer will allow the hammer to move farther forward pushing the lifter further forward.

How much positive firing pin protrusion do you have now?

How much headspace do you have?

The hammers are cast and not a high quality part welding and drilling and soldering is usually a no go…..if you can do those on your hammer and it works great I wish you luck. Ken

Question follow-up

The positive protrusion with hammer down is only around .030 and if I push on lifter with a punch I get .053. I have removed the extractor/ejector and inserted a live round and it fits flush with the back of the barrel. No headspace. If I reassemble things and install a live round and close the action I do not see any daylight between the back of the barrel and receiver. I have figured out that as I remove material from the nose of the hammer I am not gaining any more protrusion. I hope the removal of the material off of the hammer nose has not caused me any problems. This gun came tome originally because of a broken lifter/striker assembly. Prior to that the gun fired without problems. I am beginning to wonder if the problem lies with the replacement striker lifter assembly. Called jack first and they are going to send me a replacement kit for the serial number of the gun I have. The lady mentioned to me at one time when Numrich was making these assemblies some had the lifter on backwards. She also said that the lifters have different thicknesses.

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Here is something I learned from experience. I got a Topper in the shop with a broken transfer bar, (which is a common occurrence I discovered). I installed a new one, and thought it’s good to go. Well the guy calls back. It won’t fire. When seeing it again I realized the transfer bar was facing the wrong way. The top of the part has a radius on one side. The full flat side must face the firing pin. If not the firing pin will not protrude far enough to get a good strike. It’s easy to overlook, but I won’t overlook that one again.

Question follow-up

The transfer bar is assembled correctly. The only difference I see is if you go to Numrich site and look up Topper 88 it shows two lifter assemblies. One original and one labeled as a replacement. The replacement one is the one I got. If you compare the two you will see the original has the top beveled a lot more than the replacement on the back side. So I ground a bevel to make the two look alike and it still won’t protrude enough to fire the gun. I think if the lifter itself could be cammed up a little more it might help. Right now it just catches the back of the firing pin due to the design of the firing pin itself. I have watched Ken’s armorer course several times and the hammer is what cams the firing lifter up. Maybe the kit I have coming from Jack First has a longer lifter. When this gun original came in it was with another Topper 88 both with broken lifters. One a .410 and this one a .20 Ga. The .410 works and this one doesn’t. Both replacement lifters were the same design. I can figure out why lifter is not being pushed out as far with the hammer verses a punch pressing on the lifter. I sure am getting a lot of practice taking this gun apart and putting it back together. In fact the trigger guard is now broken in an area where the retaining pin goes. This area is really thin. It doesn’t seem to hurt things for now. Frank

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What is stopping the forward travel of the hammer? Ken

Question follow-up

I thought the frame did. Well I mean the lifter/striker hits the frame stopping its forward travel and the hammer pushes on the lifter/striker. But I have now cut off so much of the hammer that it no longer touches the frame. So I don’t know what else could stop the forward travel of the hammer. What say you? Frank

Answer

You stated that the lifter/striker plate doesn’t push the firing pin out as far with the hammer as it does simply pushing the striker plate forward with a punch. So something is stopping the hammers forward travel. I don’t know what it is but you have the gun so you should be able to find out. Ken

Reply

Got it fixed by replacing the striker/lifter assembly. The new one has the striker portion shaped differently than the original replacement one I put in the gun. Also the area of the lifter assembly where the trigger extension pushes against is a little smaller than the original replacement one. Don’t know if this has any bearing on the problem or not. I did notice that after all the chopping I did on the hammer which left a gap between the frame and the hammer nose has now disappeared with the new striker/lifter assembly. I should have just tried another striker/lifter assembly to start with. I could have saved a lot of time. Thanks for everyone’s help. Frank